Maps, Directions, and Place Reviews
Piccolo von Angertor lineage
I´ve discovered on http://www.americanboxerclub.org/boxer_history.html the lineage of the branch that resulted in Piccolo von Argentor. I´ll have to update the graph to reflect this, but I haven´t the time to do this yet. Did you think it´s best for the article to update the text only after updating the graph? Or some transient inconsistency is bearable? To summarize his lineage is:
- Alt's Flora II (not on graph) is sister to Alt´s Schecken .
- Alt´s Flora II mated with her father Lechner´s Box to produce Maier´s Lord (the first notable boxer sire)
- Maier´s Boxer was mated with Maier´s Flora of unknown parentage which produced Piccolo von Angertor
Regards Loudenvier 20:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Silly Dog Pictures Video
Gallery and guidelines
We could incorporate a gallery of sorts with boxer pictures at the end of the article. I think that as a guideline the picture to be elligible for the gallery will have to come from Wikipedia Commons. This way it will not be only a gallery for vanity, but a gallery with images contributed to the public domain on the Wikipedia commons server which makes it possible to be used easyly in any other wikipedia in any other language. Of course, this gallery would have a limit imposed by common sense, but since I can't make sense of its preferable size right now I will not suggest any. Regards Loudenvier 14:21, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Boxer as fight dogs
I think its clear that the boxer, given his physical characteristics, was used as a fight dog. Many sources state that, but they aren't reliable enough for me to use them to back up the fighting dog "dark" side of the history of the breed. I think its politically incorrect to try to hide this fact. In light of present day Boxer temperament its unnecessary and perhaps derogatory trying to deny any aspect of the breed history. I think the fact here is that we need to make clear that while Boxers were used as fight dogs in the past, they weren't bred for fighting (in contrast with Staffordshire Bull Terrier), so they are not fighting dogs, only physically capable dogs that were used on dog fights. Some links to read: [1] [2]. But let me make something clear: I am totally against dog fights. If I know of someone who practices it, I would take the Sh#t out of him and take him to the police. Regards Loudenvier 14:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Neutrality
This article needs some neutrality cleanup. Read through the sections on demeanor and tell me that's unbiased. Only positive facts are mentioned about the dog's demeanor and uses.
height, weight and deafness
I've recently reverted an edit that changed those information because they were wrong. Alleged increased deafness rate in whites are still controversial, not unbiased studies surfaced so far that claiming whites to be MUCH MORE PRONE is going too far. 35 kg is far too much for weight, 32 kg is the accepted maximum (70 pounds =~ 32 kg). Loudenvier 16:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Gallery is becoming excessive
The gallery is obviously becoming full of unencyclopedic images which probably make loading the page an absolute nightmare for people without highspeed internet. I propose removing these images which I feel do not help to illustrate boxers in any way not addressed by the text and/or other images and are therefore unnecessary and unencyclopedic.
I'm sure this will be met with resistance, but galleries shouldn't be a free-for-all of whoever wants to see their dog online. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 13:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Tempermant
Do we really need to plagiarize to describe their temper?
The character of the Boxer is of the greatest importance and demands the most careful attention. He is renowned for his great love and faithfulness to his master and household, his alertness, and fearless courage as a defender and protector. The Boxer is docile but distrustful of strangers. He is bright and friendly in play but brave and determined when roused. His intelligence and willing tractability, his modesty, and cleanliness make him a highly desirable family dog and cheerful companion. He is the soul of honesty and loyalty. He is never false or treacherous even in his old age.[12]
Sure, it is referenced, but I am sure their is a better way to write it without plagiarizing
Hereis the original work. --K8TEK 18:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I didn't add the speedy deletion crap. Get your facts straight.--K8TEK 17:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
kool! i am getting a white boxer dog! i am almost 10 years old.boxers are beautiful. it is 3 weeks old! its name is tito.
-taylor
Re-removal of certain images
I removed the two photos bc...
1). The puppy picture had a color already shown. Also, one cutesy puppy picture is enough for a couple-paragraph section.
2). Nursing puppies does not actually clarify the passage about the inherited disorders of Boxers.
VanTucky 20:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Then put it back in the infobox or the A-framce pic if you want, but seven pictures is too many for such a small article. Especially another puppy pic. We're not just talking about usefullness here, there needs to be an acceptably low ratio of images-content. Even without that one it is really too many, but I let the rest slide (such as the historical breed photos) because they arent just more silly pet pictures. VanTucky 21:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
English Bulldog
I'm putting back English Bulldog instead of Bulldog since there are more than on "Bulldog" breed and outside UK the "bulldog" is known as English Bulldog. In Brazil, for example, the correct breed name is "Buldogue Inglês" (English Bulldog). Even the bulldog article itself makes this clear in the opening. There's no point confusing the boxer article: the boxer was breed to the English Bulldog, if we keep only bulldog then it could have been the French Bulldog, the Old Enlgish Bulldog, etc. For the sake of clearness I will maintain the English prepended to bulldog. We can discuss it here in the talk further. If there is consensus to the contrary I will gladly step aside. Loudenvier 14:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I've put in the Bulldog article that "English Bulldog" is specifically a colloquial usage, the correct breed name for most countries in in fact Bulldog, not English Bulldog (though there are a few countries which use local language to name the breed, the correct breed name is or should be unaltered).
The fact that there are many types of Bulldog is irrelevant due to the fact that Bulldog refers to only one of those types and not any sub-genus of the dog, or breed type. A Bulldog is a separate dog, and comparing to a French Bulldog is not consistent as French Bulldog is not a colloquialism but a correct breed name whereas English Bulldog is a colloquialism, therefore not suitable for Wiki. Also Dachshund, means "Badger Dog" in translation but we have retained the breed name from its country of origin which is the worldwide standard for dog-naming: see, Weimerarner, Shar Pei etc. This should also be applied for the Bulldog across articles as it is not ambiguous and refers to one type of dog in particular. The link itself refers to Bulldog, not any other kind therefore it should be using the correct breed name for the link as is the Wiki standard and as a result should be Bulldog, not English Bulldog.
By way of comparison regarding naming conventions, look at the German Shepherd. In certain countries, it was known for a long time as an Alsatian and still is to a certain extent in the countries noted in the article. However, that is not the correct breed name and a point of this is made in the article itself - the dog should be referred to as a "German Shepherd" and not an "Alsatian". The same should be applied to the Bulldog, as it is not an English or British Bulldog, but purely a Bulldog.
Summing up really, there is no ambiguity in using "Bulldog" as it refers solely to one specific dog and the link goes to the correct article which if there is any ambiguity, clears it up in the first line. However, the link should be made using standard naming conventions and the breed name is "Bulldog" not "English Bulldog" as it is not a correct breed name, translation or otherwise. As a result, for clarity and correctness it should be "Bulldog" in the article and not "English Bulldog". Drivenapart 08:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you, I appreciate what you said there.
Regards Drivenapart 15:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Health of White Boxers
Loudenvier wrote (in "Reason for Editing" comment): "I do also agree that white color makes no correlation to health problems but we NEED to find external references to back this up..."
How do you find references to back up a negative? I'd be happy to provide them, but other than deafness, no one has studied health problems associated with the extreme piebald gene, because there's no evidence that there are any.
On the other hand, 66.177.191.246, there is ample evidence showing that deafness is associated with the extreme piebald gene. Visit http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/deaf.htm for a plethora of information on this fact.
Newcastle 19:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Piccolo von Angertor lineage
I´ve discovered on http://www.americanboxerclub.org/boxer_history.html the lineage of the branch that resulted in Piccolo von Argentor. I´ll have to update the graph to reflect this, but I haven´t the time to do this yet. Did you think it´s best for the article to update the text only after updating the graph? Or some transient inconsistency is bearable? To summarize his lineage is:
- Alt's Flora II (not on graph) is sister to Alt´s Schecken .
- Alt´s Flora II mated with her father Lechner´s Box to produce Maier´s Lord (the first notable boxer sire)
- Maier´s Boxer was mated with Maier´s Flora of unknown parentage which produced Piccolo von Angertor
Regards Loudenvier 20:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Removal of almost all pictures
Hi all. It's been a long time since I last contributed to this article, or to ikipedia in general, since I was taking a break from wikipedia. Of course, when I came back I came to visit "my" beloved Boxer (dog) :-) article. I was happy to see new people contributing to it, but I noticed that some actions were too drastic. The article clearly needed a clean-up, since it had way too many pictures, but now it has too few! I think a picture that adds to the article should be kept. I think the action was too drastic because it seemed to not have been based on a careful appraisal of each picture in the context of the article. For example, in the process, the picture of the first boxers in the first show was DELETED! Could anyone provide a rationale for that? It took a user:Njyoder had to actually put it back and back up it with a rationale regarding its milestone quality, or else it would be deleted again... The picture of the young boxer with the ears tapped was also REMOVED with no regard to the value it adds to the article. It's said a picture is worth a thousand words... Well, not in wikipedia, it seems. The nursing picture in the health section was also removed... What is the rationale? Load in wikipedia servers? Layout? I'm not advocating a bloated with pictures article, but overall I think the quality of the article is worse now than when I "left" wikipedia... There isn't even a decent fawn boxer picture, and fawn is the color we immediately links to the boxer. Loudenvier 16:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Disruptive behavior
I'm trying very hard to work with other people on this article but all I'm getting is disruptive behavior from one editor. I'm not trying to promote my view by doing the archival, it was a pain to simply load this page in my browser since it went way too long. Most of the discussions are already settled. Only the bulldog vs British spelling was really still active. The argument about pictures was discussed and it lead to nowhere, I've tried to substituted the bloated discussion with a cleaner, more democratic version that would encourage collective participation. My edits were considered vandalism, which is an injury to me personally as I never, ever practiced any act of vandalism in wikipedia (the worse that I did was to have violated the 3RR rule fighting a vandal, who later was blocked indefinitely from editing in wikipedia). Anyway, since that other editor demonstrated it's concern about the purpose of my archival process I have gladly brought back the long, fruitless conversation to the talk page, as seems to be her wish. And how could I be trying to promote my POV since it is not POV that is in question, only an article's layout? And I also opted for a democratic process, much less prone to POV issues than all those "far too bold" edits made to the article.
The automated archival of pages is way too automated, it's not selective and can't be used to keep a talk page concise, which is preferable. If a discussion is already settled and it is a long discussion, it can be summarized in the talk page and moved entirely to an archive. It's not against the guidelines:
Quoting the talk page guidelines:
When pages get too long
- Archive -- don't delete: When a talk page has become too large or a particular subject is no longer being discussed, don't delete the content -- archive it. See Help:Archiving a talk page for details on why and how to.
- Summarize ("refactor"): See Wikipedia:Refactoring talk pages for details on why and how to refactor talk pages.
I have spent quite a few hours today editing the talk page, doing the archival, selecting what conversations should be kept on the current talk page, writing a substitute for the long, fruitless conversion I would left in the archive, etc. and then it was all reverted and labeled as vandalism. People who know me here will surely deny that I would behave like a vandal. I even reverted my own edits in the article to let it as AnmaFinotera left it just to make sure my POV did not, in any way, affect the outcome of the "too many pictures" discussion.
I have done the archiving just like the one that was done in the Talk:Psychokinesis page. What I failed to honor was this:
If possible it is better to archive talk pages during a lull in the discussion, as it is best to avoid archiving in the midst of an active discussion so that the full context of the discussion is together.
To let the full context together, I think it's best to let the talk page longer than necessary, but there are so many topics that were already fully settled... For example, the guidelines for the gallery, which was removed from the article as it is clearly not encyclopedic still exists in the talk... Why not archive it?
Loudenvier 16:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Article Improvements
To help in the process of expanding and improving the article, I thought it might be good to have a link to the dog breed style guideline here for easier referencing to help figure out what work is needed: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dog_breeds#Recommended_article_structure. AnmaFinotera 17:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Userbox anyone?
Pictures
We had a heated argument regarding the use of images on this article. Its results were the removal of almost all pictures that were used in the article. This was a controversial edit though and the debate started again but would lead nowhere, since both parts disagree diametrically. The only productive way I see to settle this is to make an open, clear poll to see how consensus builds up. This should be done in the article's talk page so that it is available to both interested parties and neutral ones.
We should keep in mind that the use of images on articles must be rational and should conform to WP:IMAGES. While the guidelines are far from objective, leaving the amount and nature of images used to editor's discretion, it asks for relevant images, that give unique, non-redundant information to the article and in the article's context (e.g.: the same picture can be used in more than one article to illustrate the same or a different subject).
That said, it seems to be a mutual understanding that it is enough to have a single picture for each section of an article, but not necessarily that each section needs a picture.
Bellow you'll find the pictures that are in the article and those that used to be and you'll be able to simply vote by writing the following wiki bellow each picture:
*'''keep''': your rationale here... ~~~~ *'''remove''': your rationale here... ~~~~
which yields respectively:
- keep: your rationale here... yourname 14:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: your rationale here... yourname 14:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Early genealogy
- keep: visual diagram of Boxer's early genealogy with the early boxers shown. Helps visualizing the convoluted genealogy of the first boxers Loudenvier 14:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: excellent illustration and informative image AnmaFinotera 16:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- "keep": For reasons already stated
Boxers in the first show
- keep: Rare picture; historical milestone of the very first boxers in the very first show with boxers. Loudenvier 14:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: only one is needed and the other one is better; this is one is also too small and unclear
- keep: More than just significant early Boxers, this is as mentioned a milestone - the first Boxers exhibited in the first Boxer Club show.
Early boxers
- keep: Rare picture showing the early boxers depicted in the genealogy chart. Very important to help in the visualization of how different the early boxers were from the current breed standard (there's a copyvio claim, but it's a work published prior to 1928 for which copyright expired, so it'll probably be "fixed" soon). Loudenvier 14:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: with the additional information you provided, I'm sure an admin will resolve the copyvio issue soon and of the two early boxer pictures, this one is the better of the two
- keep: But add Flocki's full name, Mühlbauer's Flocki. (I think this was an image you compiled, Loudenvier, wasn't it?)
Boxer puppy ears tapped
- keep: image fits their section well and highlight something UNIQUE about the topic :-) Loudenvier 16:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: unnecessary for the topic as cropping and taping are not unique to boxers; would be appropriate in the docking (animal) article which is sadly in need of images AnmaFinotera 16:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: Most people do not know that cropped ears need to be taped to stand, and do not know that they don't know that (so won't follow the link to the docking article to find that out).
Fawn 5 year old boxer
- remove: bad angle, not that representative of the breed, coloring not well discernible. Loudenvier 16:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: too casual and unencyclopedic, adds nothing that other images do AnmaFinotera 16:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: but add to gallery
Brindle male boxer
- keep: high-quality brindle-flashy boxer picture. Perhaps it can be used as a source for a picture with all colors represented, which would eliminate the need for many other pictures, including the white boxer! Loudenvier 16:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: Nice dog, good representation of a typical brindle (though I wouldn't call him flashy). Would prefer a standing/stacked shot, though, for a fuller view of the coloring and his structure, but lacking that type of photo this will do fine.
Fawn flashy puppy
- keep: high-quality puppy picture depicting the most immediately recognizable Boxer color: fawn-flashy. There are no other puppy pictures in the article Loudenvier 16:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: would fit in either health section, if its expanded to include breeding, or maybe apperance AnmaFinotera 16:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: Unless a better photo can be found (full body standing/stacked as an illustration of fawn color; or a litter (5-8 weeks old) of brindle, fawn, and white as an illustration of Boxer puppies); I'd call this one semi-flashy at best, the white on the face will shrink to a splash on the nose and a pencil-thin line between the eyes by the time this pup is grown up.
White boxer
- keep better of the two and illustrates a rarer color variety
- keep idem (but, again, it can be used as a frame in a single picture depicting the all color varieties...) Loudenvier 18:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- keep: Again, unless a full standing/stacked photo can be found.
Another white boxer
- remove: redundant, the other white picture is or greater quality Loudenvier 16:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: redundant AnmaFinotera 18:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- remove: But add to gallery
Brindle boxer co-existing with a cat
- Keep: a nice illustration for the temperament section
- keep: Whether Boxers get along with cats is a very common question; this is a good illustration that it is possible.
Boxer dog in agility show
- Remove: not a very good image (I honestly thought it was a corgi variety from the angle :P) and isn't particularly necessary for the section; maybe a better image would work better
Is this a better replacement? This picture captures a very powerful moment of a boxer doing agility:
- keep: One or the other; I personally like the flying ears in the first photo, and it calls to mind some of the work Boxers did during the war (scaling fences and walls), as well. Either would be fine with me, though.
Zygomatic arch (dog).jpg
This is an interesting addition to the appearance or health section, showing an unique information:
- 1 Processus temporalis ossis zygomatici;
- 2 Processus zygomaticus ossis temporalis;
- 3 Processus frontalis ossis zygomatici;
- 4 sutur between 1 and 2;
- 5 Meautus acusticus externus;
- 6 Crista supramastoidea --Preceding unsigned comment added by Loudenvier (talk o contribs) 19:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Capitalization
Sometimes this can be a heated topic, so I thought I'd mention it here before making any sweeping changes. In most of the article, the breed name is capitalized. In some spots, and in some of the image captions, it is not capitalized. I have always felt that, since it is a proper name, it should be capitalized; but I know there are those who only capitalize the portion of dog names that refer to people or places - Doberman pinscher, Labrador retriever, etc.
The Wiki dog breeds page capitalizes all parts of a breed name, so I would expect this article should follow that convention - but given recent events, I no longer feel it is safe to act on that expectation. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.107.12.18 (talk) 16:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Proportion picture...
I have added a self-made (based on a wikimedia drawing) pictures with the proportions for the Boxer... I'm planning in extending the Appearance section, so I think it will not be a extraneous picture at all. Loudenvier 18:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
History and Health
I've added some more referenced information to the history section from an excellent dog encyclopedia I have. It does repeat some information from the geneology section, though, so if anyone feels it needs cleaning up or should be worked into there, feel free to do so. Let me know if you need to clarify what the source says if editing sentences. :)
I've noticed the health section doesn't seem to mention progressive axonopathy a hereditary disease of the central nervous system that was rampant in Boxers. While breeders have diligently worked to breed it out, shouldn't it be mentioned as its still recommended the pedigrees of potential pairs be checked to make sure neither is a carrier before mating? Also, anyone else thing that some of the information on the specific health problems of white boxers should be moved to in the health section? AnmaFinotera 05:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Use of the term bitch
Hi, This page uses the term bitch to refer to female domestic dogs. In an attempt to form consensus and standardize the use of the term across the set of wikipedia pages that refer to domestic dogs, I've proposed changing the term bitch to female in cases where bitch provides no additional information, and is not the commonly accepted term. Breeding may be an exception; amongst breeders, bitch may be the norm, in which case its use here is justified. Either way, if you have an opinion, please visit Talk:Dog#Use of the term bitch and join the debate.
--Thesoxlost (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Natural bobtail
Here. Worth a mention? --220.255.7.235 (talk) 11:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
"There is a line of naturally short-tailed (bobtail) Boxers that was developed in the United Kingdom in anticipation of a tail docking ban there; after several generations of controlled breeding, these dogs were accepted in the Kennel Club (UK) registry in 1998, and today representatives of the bobtail line can be found in many countries around the world. " --Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.107.12.18 (talk) 18:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
That's interesting, I have only ever heard that their tails are always "bobbed" because young Boxers have a tendency to break their tails when they are young.
96.242.219.216 (talk) 02:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Links to clubs
I personally feel that the links to clubs currently extant in the External Links section violates the guideline that Wikipedia is not a list of external links; as can currently be seen, there are already 16 such links. Veinor (talk to me) 15:49, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
show picture of adult white boxer with tail if possible, the reason is because our neighbor has pits and she also has a white boxer she swears is full blood pit, pooor thing, this dog is boxer.. thank you diana --Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.203.212 (talk) 15:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
96.242.219.216 (talk) 02:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Bobtail Boxers
I would like it if someone knowledgable in the topic expanded the boxer article to include information on the breeding, temperament and health issues of the bobtail boxer. All I know is that the bobtail comes from the corgi (?). Thanks. Lemon Pickets (talk) 10:46, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Boxer pictures
I don't know where the pictures of these boxers originate from, but it seems to me that there isn't a single 'pure-blooded' boxer picturized on this page. I've lived with boxers my entire life, and I can say for certain that muzzle of most of these boxers is too long. A true boxer has barely any white fur and a short muzzle. Of course, I'm not an expert. Just giving my opinion. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.242.176.67 (talk) 15:35, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Where the Boxer was developed.
The boxer was definately _NOT_ developed in America.. It was developed in Germany and then later in America and United Kingdom aswell as a few other European Countrys.
I have edited this to suit, anybody disagree? --Preceding unsigned comment added by Kremsel (talk o contribs) 23:05, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Help, cleanup request
The later part of this article (after the health section is an un-formatted mess. Will someone please help organize it. 71.112.23.3 (talk) 11:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Lead and Spelling
There has been some back-and-forth 'udoing' on this article, primarily regarding the lead and the spelling (American vs. British). Per the Wikipedia guidelines, the lead should include brief information on such things as coat color, physical characteristics, and breed history. Per WP:Lead:
The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article, establishing context, summarizing the most important points, explaining why the subject is interesting or notable, and briefly describing its notable controversies, if there are any. The emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic according to reliable, published sources. The lead should not "tease" the reader by hinting at but not explaining important facts that will appear later in the article. It should contain up to four paragraphs, should be carefully sourced as appropriate, and should be written in a clear, accessible style so as to invite a reading of the full article.
The history of this page also shows a desire to 'flesh out' the lead.
Spelling should remain as American, per the Wiki Style Manual, specifically this section of WP:ENGVAR:
Retaining the existing variety
If an article has evolved using predominantly one variety, the whole article should conform to that variety, unless there are reasons for changing it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic. In the early stages of writing an article, the variety chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used, unless there is reason to change it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic. Where an article that is not a stub shows no signs of which variety it is written in, the first person to make an edit that disambiguates the variety is equivalent to the first major contributor.
The history of this page shows a long trend of Americanized spelling, save the quote from a British book. (As an aside, even if one were to change the spelling from American to English, it should not be done within the American quotations!)
If you feel the Wiki Manual would apply different rules to the lead and spelling, please present your opinion here so that an understanding may be reached.
It is americanized for some reasons... Some of the "references" are spam from breeders or from some commercial websites, like references 13 (http://www.boxer-dog.org/item/9/ which is mentioned while there is no reference about some other sites coming first on google), reference 28 (http://www.newcastleboxers.com/ace.shtml or how to list a breeder on wikipedia by just copying some articles posted online), reference 9 (another breeder). I think wikipedia should be a lot more serious about it. We can clearly tell the boxer page is controled by a group of people living in the USA.
Sunburned white boxer
It would be nice if someone could give advice for sunburned white boxers to reduce sunburns. Sikko999 (talk) 23:38, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
History
Boxers descend from a mating between a UK-bred bulldog and a mastiff-type bitch who was bred in France, so does it really make sense to have paragaphs about the bullenbeiser? (Sources: The Popular Boxer by Elizabeth Somerfield, The Boxer by John Wagner, The Boxer by John Gordon, All About The Boxer by John F Gordon.)
DoberStaff.
"Learning Theory"
Whoever changed the training section from "motivational" to "learning theory" obviously doesn't realize that positive punishment and aversives are part of learning theory.
Jerking a dog around with a choke chain like a barbarian is still utilizing learning theory - it's just punishment-based learning. Good training technique - no, not in my humble opinion. However, it is still based on learning theory - the part of operant conditioning which states that organisms will work to avoid punishment.
Learning theory is not something that is or is not applied - it is an inherent way of acquiring behavior. Whether or not the trainer is aware of that is not relevant - it is still the mechanism by which organisms obtain or change behavior.
Changing it back to something more educated and less blatantly biased - and I'm a very positive trainer, so let's all keep that in mind, please.
Don't argue about who is the better trainer and what is the best training method. Train you dog how you want, just don't talk about it her or in the article.Mantion (talk) 01:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
weight
i was just wondering how some boxers can be a little taller with a slightly more protruded muzzle
my boxer - buster - is a 4 1/2 yr old male brindle the vet says his weight should be 89lbs
does this sound right ? he is very muscular and as i said has longer legs and a little taller than most boxers i have akc papers on him as a pure bred
his mother and father are shorter with the wider shorter muzzle mom is a fawn and dad a brindle
please advise 99.139.47.222 (talk) 21:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Would someone please put in a translation for: "daß er aus Furcht vor dem großen Baxer Salmonet ... sich auf einige Tage in ein geräumiges Packfaß ... absentiret hatte". I'm not that good but it seems to mean "that he, out of fear of the great "Baxer Salmonet," had hid himself (lit. made himself absent) one day in a roomy keg." Could someone do better please and put it in? The line doesn't seem that important, wouldn't it make more sense just to quote "aus Furcht vor dem großen Baxer Salmonet?" --Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.184.48 (talk) 07:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The translation is: that he....... from fear of the large Baxter Salmonet on some days in a spacious Pack Barrel. (Bozo33)
Section is argumentative.
"Boxers, like other animals, typically respond better to positive reinforcement techniques such as clicker training, an approach based on operant conditioning and behaviorism, which affords the dog an opportunity to think independently and to problem-solve.[10][11] Because of their resistance to repetitive and punishment-based training, Stanley Coren's survey of obedience trainers, summarized in his book, The Intelligence of Dogs, ranked Boxers at #48 - average working/obedience intelligence. Many who have actually worked with Boxers disagree quite strongly with Coren's survey results, and maintain that a skilled trainer who utilizes reward-based methods will find Boxers have far above-average intelligence and working ability."
The above section seems to be an arugmentative and not factual. The reader learns very little. This is not the place to argue how smart a boxer is or what is the best way to train dogs.Mantion (talk) 01:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
falsities on the page, your history is wrong and your references lead to no conlusion, as a family who has bread boxers for year no whites have ever been deaf, and the uses of these dogs as "cart pullers" and the like is not correct. you should not post false information if you are going to use incompleate and false references. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.175.14 (talk) 07:47, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
American Boxer
The word American needs to be capitalized. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.94.91.58 (talk) 01:17, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
File:Brindle cd.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
Tasha: Boxer Genome Project
I'd like information about the boxer genome project. The most recent that I've been able to find (so far) dates back to about 2006. Has there been any progress since Tasha's complete genome was sequenced? Have biologists been able to isolate a gene that causes epilepsy or diabetes? Thanks. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.184.8.131 (talk) 19:07, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Size/weight unjustified editing
The size specifications for this dog keep being edited upwards (making them seem larger than they on average are). I know dogs vary, but surely the best policy is to adhere to Kennel Club and American Kennel Club breed standards? Please advise, for I am rather new and slightly frustrated at this. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerryjtierney (talk o contribs) 22:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Assessment comment
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Boxer (dog)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Last edited at 17:39, 31 July 2010 (UTC). Substituted at 20:16, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
AKC
This is what AKC ( American breed standard says) : Color: The colors are fawn and brindle. Fawn shades vary from light tan to mahogany. The brindle ranges from sparse but clearly defined black stripes on a fawn background to such a heavy concentration of black striping that the essential fawn background color barely, although clearly, shows through (which may create the appearance of reverse brindling). White markings, if present, should be of such distribution as to enhance the dog's appearance, but may not exceed one-third of the entire coat. They are not desirable on the flanks or on the back of the torso proper. On the face, white may replace part of the otherwise essential black mask, and may extend in an upward path between the eyes, but it must not be excessive, so as to detract from true Boxer expression. The absence of white markings, the so-called "plain" fawn or brindle, is perfectly acceptable, and should not be penalized in any consideration of color. Disqualifications Boxers that are any color other than fawn or brindle. Boxers with a total of white markings exceeding one-third of the entire coat. Somebody put no more that 4 pictures with all white boxers in the article, and one in the lead. Hafspajen (talk) 20:47, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Infobox picture
Should the infobox picture be changed to show the breed as it would look in standard competitions, since it is a show dog. I know alot of people have problems with cropping the ears or docking the tails, and I have five boxers, all which have docked tails, but I never had their ears cropped. So I understand, but still... I guess I'm just trying to see if there was discussion or any consensus on what to do.Worldjustice (talk) 01:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Info box should definately show a dog that conforms to breed standard i.e. with a docked tail -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.168.79.1 (talk) 05:45, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
Boxers look don't look cool and unique with long undocked tails. Not recalling any pain from being circumcised at birth I find it hard to believe that docking is traumatic or very painful as well. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.86.17 (talk) 23:33, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
Source of the article : Wikipedia
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